font creation software for Unicode Hebrew proposal ?

[Elaine Keown]

Elaine Keown
Bryan, Texas

Hello:

After *today*, please reply off-list.
I am now reading the archives and
sometimes joining the list for 24 hours.

I am looking for inexpensive glyph creation
software to produce a Unicode Hebrew proposal.
The Hebrew Unicode list recommended several
possibilities: Graphite, PfaEdit,
VOLT, and TypeTool.

However, only Graphite, VOLT, and TypeTool
run under Windows. In addition, I was told
by an SIL person that Graphite won't work
for me. VOLT apparently assumes you
start with a TrueType font file, and
the TypeTool products description says it
doesn't support Arabic or Hebrew. That may not
matter so much since most of my 80 glyphs
will be vowel etc. diacritics....

Further help appreciated---Elaine

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[Joop Jagers]

Font Creator is an excellent program and costs only $50. It can be
downloaded at http://www.high-logic.com. It supports composite glyphs
(TypeTool doesn't) which I am told are common in Hebrew.

Post by Elaine Keown
Elaine Keown
Bryan, Texas
After *today*, please reply off-list.
I am now reading the archives and
sometimes joining the list for 24 hours.
I am looking for inexpensive glyph creation
software to produce a Unicode Hebrew proposal.
The Hebrew Unicode list recommended several
possibilities: Graphite, PfaEdit,
VOLT, and TypeTool.
However, only Graphite, VOLT, and TypeTool
run under Windows. In addition, I was told
by an SIL person that Graphite won't work
for me. VOLT apparently assumes you
start with a TrueType font file, and
the TypeTool products description says it
doesn't support Arabic or Hebrew. That may not
matter so much since most of my 80 glyphs
will be vowel etc. diacritics....
Further help appreciated---Elaine
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--
Joop Jagers (Eindhoven, NL)

\ \\ // /
( @ @ )
----oOOO----(_)----OOOo-----





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[Peter Kirk]

Post by Joop Jagers
Font Creator is an excellent program and costs only $50. It can be
downloaded at http://www.high-logic.com. It supports composite glyphs
(TypeTool doesn't) which I am told are common in Hebrew.

Post by Elaine Keown
...
Further help appreciated---Elaine

And you can try it out for free, for 30 days, to see if it really does
do what you need. If it does, you should register it.

From the online manual, it appears that this supports mapping glyphs to
Unicode code points (though they seem to refer to "Microsoft Unicode"!).
But presumably you will need to use the PUA for glyphs for a proposal,
for which you can use the Microsoft symbol range as defined.
--
Peter Kirk
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***@qaya.org (work)
http://www.qaya.org/




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[Elaine Keown]

Elaine Keown
central Texas

Hi,

What is the absolute minimal font
requirement for a Unicode proposal?

Just glyphs or more?

If the PUA is supposed to be
left-to-right, what codes do I give
the proposed glyphs? Do they have
to have a real Unicode code point?

Thanks, Elaine

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[Michael Everson]

What is the absolute minimal font requirement for a Unicode proposal?

Glyphs. Is there a difficulty?
--
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com


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[Elaine Keown]

Elaine Keown
Bryan, Texas

Hello,

Post by Elaine Keown

What is the absolute minimal font requirement for a

Unicode proposal?
Glyphs. Is there a difficulty?
Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * *

If one is almost totally ignorant of fonts,
there are several difficulties.---Elaine

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[Doug Ewell]

If the PUA is supposed to be left-to-right, what codes do I give the
proposed glyphs? Do they have to have a real Unicode code point?

Any characters you assign to the PUA can have any properties you choose,
including directionality. The default LTR directionality for the PUA
doesn't mean you can't assign RTL characters to it. (You might have
trouble getting rendering engines to understand what you want, but you
get used to that working with the PUA.)

-Doug Ewell
Fullerton, California
http://users.adelphia.net/~dewell/



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[Chris Jacobs]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Elaine Keown" <***@yahoo.com>
To: <***@unicode.org>
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2003 12:48 AM
Subject: Re: font creation software for Unicode Hebrew proposal ?

Post by Elaine Keown
Elaine Keown
central Texas
Hi,
What is the absolute minimal font
requirement for a Unicode proposal?
Just glyphs or more?

Just pictures.

The Unicode Standard 4.0, page 7:

1.6 Submitting New Characters

"The Unicode Consortium accepts proposals for inclusion of new characters
and scripts in the Unicode Standard. All proposals must be in writing, must
include at least one picture of each proposed character (normally from a
printed source), and must include significant documentation justifying the
proposal. Those considering submitting a proposal should first determine
whether a particular script or character has already been proposed. The
identification of the sponsor(s) must be included, along with a postal
address and an electronic mail address or phone number. Please consult the
Unicode Consortium's Web site (http://www.unicode.org) for the most current
guidelines. ... "

Looks to me the pictures don't _have_ to be from a printed source but can be
just written by hand.

Post by Elaine Keown
If the PUA is supposed to be
left-to-right, what codes do I give
the proposed glyphs? Do they have
to have a real Unicode code point?

If you assign code points in the PUA to your glyphs it does not matter which
code points that are, since those codepoints then will not be used anyway.

Post by Elaine Keown
Thanks, Elaine
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[Doug Ewell]

Post by Chris Jacobs

Post by Elaine Keown
If the PUA is supposed to be
left-to-right, what codes do I give
the proposed glyphs? Do they have
to have a real Unicode code point?

If you assign code points in the PUA to your glyphs it does not matter
which code points that are, since those codepoints then will not be
used anyway.

You certainly can use PUA code points, together with a suitable font, if
you want to encode and display text for interchange. This does not make
the characters part of the Unicode Standard; they are simply a "mutual
agreement" between sender and receiver (and font-maker). See
http://users.adelphia.net/~dewell/udhr-ew.html for an example. Be sure
you have installed Code 2000 by James Kass, and be sure (sigh) to change
your encoding manually to UTF-8.

But if Elaine simply wants to create a font with the desired glyphs,
then Chris is correct. It is not necessary to assign a Unicode code
point to every ligature and alternative glyph in a font.

-Doug Ewell
Fullerton, California
http://users.adelphia.net/~dewell/



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[Chris Jacobs]

Post by Doug Ewell
But if Elaine simply wants to create a font with the desired glyphs,
then Chris is correct. It is not necessary to assign a Unicode code
point to every ligature and alternative glyph in a font.

I thought Elaine wanted to create a font because she thought it was needed
for a proposal.

What I meant to say is that if you assign PUA code points to your glyphs in
a proposal, that then, if your proposal is accepted, the PUA code points
will not be used by the Consortium. They will assign different codepoints
for the glyphs.



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[Elaine Keown]

Elaine Keown
central Texas

Hello again,

Please reply off-list--I'm mostly trying
to become a 3-day weekend Fri-Sun Unicoder.

For the Hebrew proposal, I'm mostly doing new
vowels/diacritics since my beloved ligatures
were outlawed.

Is there somewhere a freely available glyph
that has that little dotted circle used
to display diacritics in Unicode documentation?

Is that part of the requirements, that I can
position the vowel or diacritic glyph near
the little dotted circle?

And what does one call that in the design
process, the ability to position the glyph
thusly?

Also, last time I made little squares in a
graphics program to hold my scanned,
calligraphed ligatures etc. Are the little
squares required also? Last time everything
just went in the graphics program, which was
time-consuming but not too difficult....

Thanks, Elaine

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[Raymond Mercier]

I am looking for Mac versions of the fonts TitusCyberbitBasic and Code2000.
Any suggestions ?
I would like a serif font like Times, with the Latin Extended Additional
block.

Raymond Mercier



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[Peter Kirk]

Post by Raymond Mercier
I am looking for Mac versions of the fonts TitusCyberbitBasic and Code2000.
Any suggestions ?
I would like a serif font like Times, with the Latin Extended Additional
block.
Raymond Mercier

Try Gentium, a free download from
http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&item_id=Gentium.
It covers the Latin Extended Additional block and works on Mac OS 9 and
OS X.
--
Peter Kirk
***@qaya.org (personal)
***@qaya.org (work)
http://www.qaya.org/




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[John Delacour]

Post by Raymond Mercier
I am looking for Mac versions of the fonts TitusCyberbitBasic and Code2000.
Any suggestions ?

Any true-type font can be used on the Mac. Here's one URL. I also
have Code2000 installed but I cant remember where I got it. Do a
Google search.

<http://titus.fkidg1.uni-frankfurt.de/unicode/tituut.asp>



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[Raymond Mercier]

Thanks to all who reassure me that TitusCyberbitBasic and Code2000 as I use
them on my PC can also be used on Mac with OS X. This is really for a
colleague, who has tried without success to install the Titus font that I
passed on to her. She tells me she has OS X, and I will just have to discuss
it further with her.

Raymond Mercier





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[John Delacour]

Post by Raymond Mercier
Thanks to all who reassure me that TitusCyberbitBasic and Code2000 as I use
them on my PC can also be used on Mac with OS X. This is really for a
colleague, who has tried without success to install the Titus font that I
passed on to her. She tells me she has OS X, and I will just have to discuss
it further with her.

She simply needs to put the .ttf files in ~/Library/Fonts/ or
/Library/Fonts/ and relaunch any application she wants to use them
in. This goes even for Arial Unicode MS. In MacOS 10.2.8 it is not
necessary even to log out.

The fonts can also be installed under MacOS 8.6+ for use in WorldText
and sadly little else, but they need a little doctoring first and
keyboard resources need also to be installed which differ from the
xml keyboard layouts used in MacOS 10.

JD






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[John Jenkins]

Yes. The Windows versions of Titus Cyberbit Basic and Code 2000 work
fine on Mac OS X for Latin Extended Additional.

Post by Raymond Mercier
I am looking for Mac versions of the fonts TitusCyberbitBasic and Code2000.
Any suggestions ?
I would like a serif font like Times, with the Latin Extended
Additional
block.
Raymond Mercier

========
John H. Jenkins
***@apple.com
***@mac.com
http://homepage..mac.com/jhjenkins/



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[John Hudson]

Post by Elaine Keown
For the Hebrew proposal, I'm mostly doing new
vowels/diacritics since my beloved ligatures
were outlawed.
Is there somewhere a freely available glyph
that has that little dotted circle used
to display diacritics in Unicode documentation?

I can send you one. Any other generic glyphs you need?

Post by Elaine Keown
Is that part of the requirements, that I can
position the vowel or diacritic glyph near
the little dotted circle?

I think it is a good idea. You should try to make the glyphs as final as
possible, in case they end up being the only versions available for Unicode
glyph charts if the characters are accepted. So base them as closely as
possible on similar glyphs in the current code charts.

Post by Elaine Keown
And what does one call that in the design
process, the ability to position the glyph
thusly?

I presume that in your proposal you will simply make composites glyphs
containing both the dotted circle and the combining mark. That should be
perfectly sufficient for the proposal and for the glyph charts. Obviously,
in a 'real world' font, the marks will not be sitting on dotted circles,
but will be dynamically positioned relative to base characters (e.g. Hebrew
consonants). The latter would be called glyph positioning or, more
precisely if using a typical OpenType GPOS approach for mark positioning,
anchor attachment positioning.

Post by Elaine Keown
Also, last time I made little squares in a
graphics program to hold my scanned,
calligraphed ligatures etc. Are the little
squares required also? Last time everything
just went in the graphics program, which was
time-consuming but not too difficult....

I don't think this is necessary. If you want to put the glyphs in squares,
you can do so in your layout or graphics program, rather than including the
squares with in glyphs.

Elaine, how many characters are you thinking about proposing? If you have
vector outline graphics (e.g. Illustrator EPS images), I can probably save
you some time, trouble and expense and can put a font together for you.

John Hudson


Tiro Typeworks www.tiro.com
Vancouver, BC ***@tiro.com

You need a good operator to make type. If it were a
DIY affair the caster would only run for about five
minutes before the DIYer burned his butt off.
- Jim Rimmer



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[P***@sil.org]

Post by Elaine Keown
I am looking for inexpensive glyph creation
software to produce a Unicode Hebrew proposal.
The Hebrew Unicode list recommended several
possibilities: Graphite, PfaEdit,
VOLT, and TypeTool...

Neither Graphite or VOLT are for creating glyphs. If all you need to do is
create glyphs, then both PfaEdit and TypeTool will do that.


Peter


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[Raymond Mercier]

Thanks - I have passed on your messages.
Raymond



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